I have a mystery Mr. Amano

sfarkhan · Post by **sfarkhan** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:27 pm

So... Picture it... Tuesday afternoon a box arrives and it's packed with a school of 30 amano shrimp and 10 coral red pencilfish from Rachel.

1. I acclimate and get the critters into my tank. Everything seems okay...

EDIT: The acclimation happened before the CO2 and lights came on for the day - I prevented both from coming on for a few hours after the fish and shrimp were introduced.

2. An hour later I saw an angel hunt an amano, didn't catch it... Not a good sign but I am selling the pair of angels this weekend. The coral reds, like the cardinal tetra are left alone. I sigh relief.

3. This morning before the lights and CO2 came on I found 9 dead shrimp, mostly whole untouched. The coral reds along with the cardinal tetra were near the surface. I examined the tank and there were two amano grazing on algae on a Crypt balansae near the surface.

Thinking it was lack of O2 I moved the lily pipe up to break the water's surface to drive some air into the tank.

4. I then checked the water conditions:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20 (considering I had 9 decomposing shrimp this isn't surprising)
KH 4
pH 6.6

I would believe low O2 but the corys, otos, angels, and apistos were swimming around normally.

5. As a precaution I did a 50% water change.

Everything was well..

6. I got back this afternoon and there were 6 more dead amano mostly whole and untouched. The rest of the fish are acting normally...

The only things that go into my tank are:
DC's *cough* finest *cough* tap water
Seachem Prime (with water changes)
Seachem Flourish Iron, 5ml every other day
Seachem Flourish 5ml, 3x a week
Seachem Excel 10ml/daily (reduction of algae)
Green Leaf Aquariums NPK ferts PPI dosing 5ml daily
Petco Frozen blood worms
Driftwood
Slate tile buried in the substrate
A few quartz rocks
UP Aquasoil
Stainless steel screws (holding the driftwood together and to the slate tile)

I would love to have amano cleaning crew but something is killing them and I can't figure out why.

Could there be copper in my tap water? It's an old house but I think the pipes have been updated.

Help...

Jim Miller · Post by **Jim Miller** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:15 am

I killed >200 shrimp in my MTS tank before shrimp finally found it habitable. I now have fish in my "shrimp tank."

RCS cockroaches.

J

sfarkhan · Post by **sfarkhan** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:19 am

Edit: Do you know what changed in your tank?
How long do you acclimate your livestock?

A user Planted tank says I need to do a 45 minute drip acclimation for shrimp.

I did a 10 minute acclimation (what I've done for all my fish with no loss).

He/she states that's not long enough - If I have to do a 45 minute drip acclimation, I'm not buying shrimp... These aren't discus or $$$ exotic marine fish.

Jim Miller · Post by **Jim Miller** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:59 am

I did everything from dump them in to 1 hr drip. Nothing worked. My theory is there was something in in the soil that was not tested for that needed to leach out that only time and water changes would do. If starting again with any fresh soil substrate I'd have a separate RCS tank to breed in that wasn't soil and move one or two poor souls a month to act as canaries.

That tank would have inert substrate and just fern, anubias and moss for decoration. No rooting plants means no need for rich substrate.

BTW, it took 9 months before shrimp survived in my case.

Jim

Post by **krisw** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:23 am

Shrimp often have a hard time in newish Aquasoil as well. I've always considered Amano shrimp to be fairly nuclear proof. They often climb out of the tank if they don't like the water. I rarely do any acclimation with them either, and have them crawling all over the place.

You might want to consider the bloodworms. When I ran out of veggie wafers for my shrimp tank, I substituted a mixed bag of veggie/protein pellets from Ken's fish, hoping that the shrimp would grab the spirulina pellets, and the plecos would grab the protein pellets. I pretty consistently see a handful of dead OEBT shrimp if I use these pellets. I don't know if it's a pollutant in the pellet or just a protein overload, but if lots of extra bloodworms stay in the tank, I'm sure the Amano's are all over them. I wouldn't say this isn't the most likely situation in your case, compared to water/soil issues, but definitely check the ingredients on your fish foods.

jweis · Post by **jweis** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:26 am

I don't acclimate my Amanos much at all and they all do well, so I don't think it was acclimation. I wonder if there are traces of copper in your tank since you used to feed with food that contained copper.

What a shame though. Amanos do a great job keeping the fine leaved plants clean.

sfarkhan · Post by **sfarkhan** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:01 am

Okay, now users on Planted Tank are saying 6 hour acclimation and turning off CO2 - Sorry - won't go through hoops like that for a $2 shrimp. I think I'm an OCD crazy fish person and even I think that is rediculous.

based on what you are saying I'm starting to see the acclimation probably isn't the issue.

Jim - I also think it could be something in my water - either from the tank or the house. The houses on this block are ~120 years old and it could have old copper pipes. I will try a QT tank without excel, CO2, ferts to see if just the water has an affect.

Kris - I'll consider the food - I also use flakes from Tetra - the basic ones they sell everywhere. They don't have copper. FWIW the angels and other fish gobble up a the blood worms almost immediately. The shrimp may not have gotten any.

Julie - Based on all of your input, I don't think the acclimation is an issue either. I'll test for copper

1. What copper test kit do you use? I've ordered API copper test
2. Excel dosing an issue?
3. I run my CO2 lean 1.5bps for a 57 gallon tank, it was off for 16 hours before the shrimp were added. Could it be excel dose plus CO2?

Jim Miller · Post by **Jim Miller** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:09 am

I use lots of co2 and occasionally lots of excel. Shrimp breed like crazy right thru it. It's either the soil or some additive.

J

Post by **krisw** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:15 am

When testing for copper, test both your hot and cold water. Sometimes your cold water's fine, but old hot water tanks can leach out metals from the tank/build-up. Of course, test your tank water too (but wait several days after a water change)

sfarkhan · Post by **sfarkhan** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:26 am

Jim Miller wrote:I use lots of co2 and occasionally lots of excel. Shrimp breed like crazy right thru it. It's either the soil or some additive.

J

Amanos or other shrimp? I've heard the cherries are less sensitive to CO2 and excel.