Shrimp for acidic water?

[kerokero]

Since it was recently brought up in another thread that different shrimp have different pH requirements, and I have a preference for blackwater tanks, I figured I'd go ahead and ask What are Shrimp that do well in more acidic tanks, and what are their pH ranges? I got some useful info off Arizona Inverts (which lists pH preferences) but other sources like petshrimp.com seem to not list pH preferences for most... seems like a majority of them like alkaline.

From some quick research, here are some shrimp that seem do do well to even need acidic conditions (6.2 to neutral):

-Tiger Shrimp (Caridina cf. cantonensis "Tiger")
-Bee Shrimp (Caridina cf. cantonensis) and it's other color forms the CRS and the Golden Bees
-Bumblebee Shrimp (Caridina sp. "Bumblebee")
-Chinese Zebra Shrimp (Caridina sp. "Chinese Zebra")

There are other shrimp like Malawa Shrimp (Caridina pareparensis parvidentata) that are listed as being able to thrive in a huge range in conditions, but I'm hesitant to think they'd do well in the acidic extreme.

Of course, none of these guys are listed to taking some of the extremes in pH (4.0-5.5) that some of the fish I'm looking at would take for some of their breeding, but for a nice 6.4ish tank for general upkeep they'd probably like.

Thoughts? Experiences? Should I even try to bother with shrimps as part of a cleaning crew in the blackwater tank with my Boraras and crypts that Ghazenfar wants to unload on me?

[PadreJP]

Among your best choices for acidic conditions would be the Tiger grouping of shrimps (Tiger, Super Tiger, Blue Tiger, Red Tiger) or else the Bee grouping (CRS, Bee, Golden Bee). When I say "best" here, it is a combination of shrimp that are nice looking and relatively available. There are some others but they are more obscure; the Zebra (or Chinese Zebra) is quite rarely seen, and sometimes shrimp people try to sell as Zebras are in fact really just Tiger shrimp. Bumblebees could be a good choice, though again they are not quite as available as the first two big groupings I listed.

Unfortunately, all of the Tiger and Bee varieties are simply color morphs of the same species (Caridina cantonensis), which means they can hybridize if kept together.

I'll ask around to try to dig up any other acidic species, and post again if I get any more info.

[kerokero]

Cool, let me know! I think it would be cool to have them in some of my tanks if they can handle it and don't mess with my Boraras. I know the Boraras would mess with babies but I'd be good and have a shrimp tank for them too. I'd probably stick to just one or two kinds, definately kept seperate. I like the look of the Bees While the CRS are cool, I'd rather have the more sedate wild type and have the Boraras in the tank have all the colorful glory!

[Sonny Disposition]

The glass shrimp in the east coast black water swamps should do really well. They're all over the eastern shore.

[DelawareJim]

Check on ShrimpNow as well. They give a lot of info by species.

http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php?na ... gory&cid=1

Cheers.
Jim

[kerokero]

Bob - do you know anything else about the native Shrimp? Ideally I'd like a shrimp that I could reproduce and I'm not really sure if the local glass shrimp need that salty stage or not. Too bad I didn't read this BEFORE I spent the whole weekend on the Eastern Shore But then again I'm not sure how much fun the friends would have had watching me in the marshes with a net...

Jim - thanks for the link! Great reading while waiting for work to be handed my way...

[tomterp80]

(nothing like commenting on old threads )

I've collected grass shrimp in the Potomac, at Purse State Park, where they were in abundance. I've tried to integrate them into my fully freshwater tanks without success. I think they'd be more appropriate for a brackish setup, generally.

Googling around a bit, it appears that Palaemonetes pugio is the most common species in the Chesapeake watershed, and from a South Carolina web site it is generally considered that a salt content of 3 parts per 1,000 is the minimum, though some have been observed in full freshwater.

Saline content in the tidal Potomac varies widely depending on rainfall patterns. A prolonged drought reduces the amount of freshwater entering the system and salt concentration climbs accordingly. Rain events can flush out the salt to near zero for extended periods of time.

Here's the South Carolina discussion on grass shrimp.

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:anE ... cd=2&gl=us

[Sonny Disposition]

It's possible that you could substitute a calcium salt for sodium chloride with these shrimp. I don't know for sure, but this works for many fish species that require sodium. Sailfin mollies, mummichog, and sheepshead minnows will do well in fresh water with some calcium hardness, and, in my experience will die without it. I'm assuming that the same might be true for the shrimp. When we were collecting above Great Falls we found small shrimp, which looked a heck of a lot like a Palaemonetes species to me. I'm guessing these were the descendents of a long ago bait bucket introduction. This was well above the fall line, so I doubt there was much sodium in the water. I know that many area streams flow over limestone deposits, so I'd wager there was a fair amount of calcium in the water.

So for keeping lower Potomac grass shrimp in the aquarium, you could add some calcium chloride to the water (sold at the hardware stores during the winter to melt snow and ice on sidewalks) or try dissolving some horticultural hydrated lime in a gallon of water before adding it to your tank. The latter isn't very soluble, and I can only get about a half teaspoon or so of it to dissolve in a gallon jug.

Alternately, you could collect your grass shrimp from the acid blackwater streams of the Atlantic coastal plain, and they could presumably survive without sodium or calcium.

[tomterp80]

When we were collecting above Great Falls we found small shrimp, which looked a heck of a lot like a Palaemonetes species to me. I'm guessing these were the descendents of a long ago bait bucket introduction.

Interesting. I've done a lot of angling, and never seen them, but they are darn near invisible. I've only once ever seen american eels while angling, and yet when we collected in College Park they seemed plentiful given our seine results. Point is, there are a lot of things in the water that even someone who spends a lot of time might overlook, especially if they are transluscent.

I have never used grass shrimp for bait, but I know that people do use them on occasion. They are great for white perch in particular, but also sunnies of course.

Out of curiousity, I found this source for info on the P. Pugio, all you'd ever want to learn (except for whether calcium can substitute for sodium to any extent, so this hypothesis shall remain untested for now).

http://www.sms.si.edu/IRLspec/Palaemonetes_pugio.htm

[Sonny Disposition]

Yeah, to really find them, you need to net out a bunch of vegetation and pick through it. If you only angle, then you're going to miss a lot.

Thanks for the link. Don't know whether they're the same species as those found in the upper Potomac and the black water streams of the Eastern Shore. They all sure look alike, though.

Thanks for the link.